Author Topic: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut  (Read 41886 times)

romiin

  • Guest
is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« on: September 25, 2021, 09:39:43 AM »
 Just curious if there was any items that lionel made or one offs that never went into production.  Any info out there on this.

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2021, 04:32:05 AM »
Yes there are many items that never made production. A few years ago a major auction house sold items from Dick Kughn's collection that were from the Lionel Archives. Over 20 years ago an east coast house sold items from Lou Hertz's collection, that came from the prewar archives. Both of these auctions featured too many unique items and variations of items to list, that never made production. There is a TM or Greenberg book that features many of the items, everything from a LL Jr Hiawatha loco to a nuclear reactor model.
Marx had a similar archives auction in the 1970's or 80's that featured never-produced Marx items.
The bottom line is that yes many items come out of a companies' R&D departments, were probably shown to a committee or just to "the old man" and were rejected for reasons of cost, lack of interest or other. These items end-up on shelves in the archives gathering dust, until collector interest pries them out and they end-up in individual collections.
I could tell a similar story of prototype or R&D items from when I owned and managed the Marx Trains company from 1991 to 2004. We had hundreds of prototypes, some went to production, some just gathered dust. It is an interesting area of collecting. There are many R&D items out there, you just have to look. 

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2021, 05:23:10 AM »
Here is the TM book and a few illustrations that are about the Lionel R&D / archives items, only a very few shown

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2021, 05:24:07 AM »
more

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2021, 05:27:07 AM »
Some additional Lionel protos in my collection
Brach's hopper, Military OD set made 1942 from Lou Hertz
gunmetal proposed version of 2653 hopper

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2021, 05:28:55 AM »
Interesting Marx prototype of a Lionel 1666 loco with Marx motor, see Marx archives data in cab

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2021, 05:30:08 AM »
final is a prototype switch tower from my Marx Trains archives

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2021, 05:39:20 AM »
Terry has an interesting prototype of an early Lionel #16 standard gauge ballast car, probably one of the earliest Lionel prototypes known to exist.
There should be a pix of it here on the Forum, or maybe he will post another picture here.

pjdog350

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
    • View Profile
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2021, 02:07:44 PM »
You sure have some Lionel history knowledge Jim. And some sweet beautiful items. Thanks for showing us!
Stay home with your trains and be safe
Life is better with a Dog

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2021, 04:36:22 PM »
Just trying to be helpful.

early0electric

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
    • View Profile
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2021, 01:21:03 PM »
Good stuff, Jim!

Terry

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 912
    • View Profile
    • eBay Auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2021, 05:17:55 PM »
Jim, The 264 army set came from Hertz though a NETTE auction? I've seen other cars that came from there.

Here's a prototype 517 caboose I wrote about years ago:

http://www.train99.com/ency/mo/mo9.html

After I wrote that article I was contacted by a collector in NJ who has a 385W tender, a 515 tank and another car that I don't recall clearly - maybe 512 gondola that match the caboose. His trains have the same filled in areas with bluing.

Lionel never went into production of the new couplers on standard gauge and did not introduce and new standard gauge items after the 1934 introduction of the 392T.

starfire700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
    • ebay auctions
Re: is there any lionel proto type items that didn't make the cut
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 03:52:18 AM »
Maybe someone else got the Army set from Nette, I have only had it a little over 1 year.